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October 21, 2008

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Thank you for a wonderful post. I also think, although I have strong beliefs on the subject of reproductive rights, that civilized discourse is important.

I am happy you gave those examples of other ethically troubling situations that you found yourself in when training in medicine. I am so tired of people elevating issues of women's sexuality above other equally troubling ethical medical dilemmas, such as futile care and lack of informed consent.

I agree with DrCris.
It is so awful about the hateful commentary which Pudu recieved. To quote from a post I was reading today at http://mysadalterego.wordpress.com/

"be gentle, for everyone around you is engaged in a great struggle".

I appreciate Symtym's assessment that this was legal behaviour.

However, I think it is a bit dodgy from an ethical point of view to republish an entire post and screenshots. It just seems a bit patronizing - "Obviously you can't hack in the world of abortion debate, so I will choose to republish your writings after the fact. And I recognise that you no longer want to be the centre of this discussion, but I don't care."

Athough the internet is eternal, and people can republish and quote, I think it is nice to respect that people sometimes make mistakes. And if people want to retire from the public face of dicsussion, then they should be allowed to and not be patronized.

You indeed can have opinions!!! That's what blogging is about, the more orthogonal the opinion the better ;)

In some respects this is similar to Flea's situation. He chose to make public content, best kept private (and preserve the personal nature of the content), with dire consequences to him legally and professionally. Once content is placed in the wild (web), its existence has been fundamentally changed — it becomes viral the moment you click. Message to those in the medical-blogosphere should be: you blog with the same risks that you create a medical record (life and application is limitless).

I agree words should be used with specificity, that's why I appreciate the input. Should have looked up "misappropriation" before posting. I like "contrarian use" as a term--never considered using it--but I stand by my neologism for the purposes of communicating *my* opinion of Dawn Eden's post. I get to have opinions too.

I agree with the need to accept public discourse in all its nuances when we participate in Internet forums such as blogging. I agree that our words, once published, can be reused for purposes other than our own. This happens all the time and, in the name of free speech (of which I am an anguished supporter), I would never dare suggest these uses be limited. However, defending speech does not exclude critical evaluation of its uses. This goes on all the time, too. Freedom of speech without some kind of collective self-regulation is an intolerable scenario. Even if I will defend to the death your right to say something I disagree with, I'm still going to tell you I disagree, and if I think your actions are wrong, I'm going to say so. Some of the nuances of the crowd are my own.

I agree with your view on the negative effect of labeling, so I'm going to edit out my incorrect use of the word "misappropriation." Thanks again.

"Legal" definition of misappropriation is the codification, in our society, of our moral understanding of misappropriation — therein lies the thrust. The argument of only using misappropriation for its "moral weight" is to appropriate the connotation sans responsible use. We use words for purposes — to color our message. No purpose using the word, if not for the negative connotation it conjures.

Understand the neologism, but how about calling it what it is — contrarian use. Contrarian use goes hand-in-hand with public discourse. I think there is a step beyond the content when we label the content provider with a socially objectionable term (misappropriator). Once labeled, the next step is to dismiss the messenger based upon this labeling because they are now deemed sociably objectionable (conclusion sans factual basis creates a circular argument). The attack is on the argument, not the person.

The message of Pudu/Dawn is there may be contrarian views between the two and blog postings may be repurposed and retasked to accentuate this nature. And, there is no such thing as a personal discourse on the web, they are all public discourses and subject to the nuances of the crowd.

enrico

One's exploitation may be another's advocacy. I understand and agree on the concern, but differ on the characterization. On the web, we either believe in free speech or we don't. Free speech is a mutual activity and any attempt to control or curtail another's application of free speech cuts to one's defense of their free speech. There were no "legal corrections" (that's dismissive), but rather logical arguments about the post (not the positions in the post).

I always appreciate symtym's take on matters, especially when he speaks from his legal expertise! I can't argue with his interpretation, including the perhaps improper use of the work "misappropriation" which I chose, not for its legal implication but for its moral weight. I could substitute the neologism "malappropriation" because my purpose in writing this post is not to challenge the legal implications of re-posting another blogger's work--and indeed, I agree with your interpretation--but to consider the moral implications of re-posting a blogger's words a) to support a position which is in opposition to her own, and b) when the blogger herself has removed herself from public debate after (reportedly) receiving hate/threat comments.

I also hope that opening up the discussion to the other ethically-challenging clinical scenarios would raise a larger point about how we can encourage doctors to become more reflective about these issues. Dawn Eden would like young doctors to refuse to participate in abortion care--fine. But her appeals to conscience fall flat in light of the "malappropriation" of Pudu Overload's words to support her own views. Is this how you persuade people of the correctness of your opinion?

Thanks for the analysis of the legal issues, these are important for all of us to understand and it certainly helps me grasp the situation better.

Pudu's original post was clear and I thought quite neutral...i am not at all sure why she took it down...

T,
Excellent post! Though I have to wonder: what was so controversial about what YOU wrote? On Twitter you were obviously conflicted about how much of a crapstorm this might create, but I don't see anything that generates controversy.

@symtym: your legal corrections aside, what I gathered from T's view is that Dawn seems to profess a genuine concern and almost maternal interest in Pudu's "spiritual formation" vis a vis this experience. However, by not only posting her words in their enitrety (totally OK with me so far) but at the same time offering screenshots (now I have a problem) which provide nothing more to further Dawn's argument or core information, leaves the reader with a feeling as though Pudu has been nothing short of exploited for Dawn's purposes. If Dawn cared for Pudu's feelings, what would be the point of resurrecting, like an unwilling blog zombie, not just the content, but the look and feel of the site taken down?

You can go on about whether or not it was in Dawn's right to do so, whether there was an "expectation" of privacy once taken down (not), etc,. but you're missing the forest for the trees. Even if T misused a few words or stretched the definition of some concepts, I think we all got the bigger meaning.

There is much here I agree with; however, I'm concerned about the notions of "personal," "misappropriation" and the implied notion of copyright.

First, "personal, honest discussion...on difficult subjects" may be impossible in the venue chosen by Pudu Overload ("Pudu"), because of the inherent nature of blogs and the ability, without moderation, to post comments. Because of the ability to post comments anonymously. Because of the ability of RSS/Atom to repurpose and retask content. We are left with not "personal, honest discussion," but with public discussions with varying degrees of "honesty" and anonymity. The venue chosen does not conform to the traditional notion of "personal."

Second (out of order), there is laced throughout your post the implied argument that there is some right of Pudu violated. The obvious right is that of copyright. There is no citation to the facts regarding whether Pudu reserved all or some rights. From your citation to the Google cache, of the now offline Pudu website, would indicate that content rights were not addressed. Even if we adopt the position that all Pudu's rights were reserved, the use by The Dawn Patrol ("Dawn") website is well within the doctrine of Fair Use. It may be argued that the whole post was quoted. The counter is that it represents a singular thought entry in a web journal made public. It will be argued that it was removed from the web. Well, no one in 2008 should have the false belief that you solely control content placed on the web. Your own citation to the Google cache of Pudu is illustrative. What remains is a matter of style, do you post Pudu's content in toto in your blog or do you cite to the post in a known quasi-permanent cache on the web? Dawn chose the former, a style I think we both agree is not desirable; but nevertheless allowable under Fair Use.

Continuing on the notion of Fair Use, it is well within the nature of the doctrine and in the very nature of blogs and other forms of social communication facilitated by the web to offer other's content for commentary. Implicit in the offerring of content for commentary is the positioning of one's views with respects to another. The criticism that to do so creates "victims of...others who want to promote an agenda" is inconsistent with the history and practice of blogging and other social communications on the web.

Lastly, "misappropriation" means the intentional, negligent or illegal use of the property or funds of another person for one's own use or other unauthorized purpose. If your two uses of the term "misappropriation" is hyperbolic, then it would seem overwhelming inconsistent with the social communications on the web as we know them. If your two uses of the term "misappropriation" is intentional, then you are simply wrong (supra point 2).

In concluding, both Pudu and Dawn are intentionally participating in a public discussion. Both are presenting content in media forms that allow commentary, repurposing and retasking of content. Fair Use allows for the commentary, repurposing and retasking of content — and this absolutely includes contrarian views (or "agenda[s]"). Misappropriation is a very harsh term without a factual basis in Dawn's post.

Should Pudu be encourged to post — sure, but with the admonition that your posts are public and subject to Fair Use and may be used to support contrarian positions. The ability to freely express on the web may be deemed a "right," but no right exists without some conceptualization of constraints, and therein lies my concern with your post. Elizabeth the First of England may have had "no desire to open windows into men's souls," but the web is about the proposition of bearing one's soul to force windows open. Caveat scriptor trumps caveat lector.

Very happy to see my own thoughts represented here. I start med school next summer.

I applaud you and your clear writing! Very nice post, Theresa. Very nice indeed.

Thanks for the well-written, thoughtful post.

In my opinion, it is always ethically questionable to re-publish another's work without permission, no matter what the platform.

In this instance, I find Ms. Eden's behavior even more questionable, because she was using the author's work to advance a view other than the author's.

Very well written post.

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