« Rural Starts 2009 With a Bang! | Main | Follow-Up: Birth Story #478 »

January 06, 2009

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e551cf09828833010536b586b8970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Birth Story #478: I'm Still Learning:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Great job! Just curious though, why cut the cord and move the baby to a warmer for resuscitation? Why not resuscitate the baby with the pulsating cord intact? Based on what I have read at http://www.cordclamp.com, I would think the intact cord could be beneficial.

Hi doc, late on all these posts, sorry. I *think* we conversed about this earlier, but can't remember...

I am NOT criticizing in any way - I think you're wonderful! Just interested in dialogue about this...

Do you think that if you took a hands-off approach, the <2 minute dystocia may have been avoided? To me - and I hope this isn't going to come back and bite me on my a$$! -- most shoulders take between 1-2 minutes! During that time, fluid is pouring out of baby's mouth, mom is resting and getting ready, baby is lining up, all good things... I feel like if a dystocia resolves without internal maneuvers, it's maybe not so much a dystocia at all?

It is my (very, very VERY humble) opinion that most shoulder dystocias are iatrogenic - caused by tugging on the head before the shoulders have turned. My approach is this: if I see the turtle sign, I *will not* reduce the perineum over the chin... which extends the neck.... and avoiding that gives more room for the shoulders to rotate. I will wait for the next contraction, or else all maneuvers are in vain. I find it takes pretty much all of a contraction for mom to push out the head... no power is left after that. If I suspect a problem, repositioning now (before A/P traction, McRoberts, etc) is wise. Obviously, I don't work much with epidurals now - but did for 9 years L&D nursing - and actually *have never met* a blocked patient who can't move to H&K... I think that is more provider assumption than reality...

Anyway, I just know that so many birth attendants seem to have a lot of shoulder dystocias, while more hands-off attendants seem to have very few. I KNOW you are hands-off, but I also (well) know the tension that can happen in a given situation, which can quickly reverse your plan to not hurry those shoulders...

Anyway, congrats on a great job and a healthy baby! And I could not agree more that late ultrasounds are USELESS. It's not rocket science to realize (okay, maybe to *admit*) that these are pathetically poor at predicting fetal weight, jeesh...

Hi,

I first want to say it is so refreshing to see a Dr. who wants to do so much to keep births vaginal. I have just read both of Nola's birth stories and I truly understand the feeling of...well...panic that is involved in a shoulder dystocia.

As a doula, my job is to support the entire team and only assess in a nonmedical way. As you say, we are all still learning. I wanted to share my phylosophy on what I think may be a primary cause of shoulder dystocia. I feel positioning is key. Yes, obviously when there is a shoulder dystocia the positioning is what's necessary to correct this emergency BUT there may be a way to avoid it in most cases. I feel that paying special attention to the position of the babies, in labor, can help the problem be avoided. I have learned that most c-sections are due to baby positions and less due to size of babies. We know if babies are not in a direct OA postion as they move into the birth canal then their heads are actually not going to fit the "puzzle" as well. This stands to reason that the same can happen with the shoulders. I have found that, depending on the postion of the baby, mom should be put in certain postions herself. Along with ice (to encourage baby to move it's head away) and heat (to encourage baby to move it's head toward) I believe these postions have made a difference in 98% of the births I and my doulas have attended. In the cases of the two shoulder dystocias I have seen, these moms had symptoms of malpositioned babies. The symptoms included stalled progression and back pain. I was not allowed to help her move into the necessary positions and the Dr. would not check to determine the positioning. I see Nola experienced these symptoms as well (although not the issues with the Dr.:)). Obviously there is not going to be a fix for every situation, but I thought you seemed as open to learning as I am. Maybe this will help :)

Thanks for all you do and hopefully your good work will spill over into "the big city"

Stefany Mills (CD) (DONA)

Great story! I'm glad things turned out well.

Just a comment though on the Gaskin Manuever...I'm a childbirth educator and doula, and in that role I do teach my clients prenatally that it is easy to move from a squat to hands & knees by tipping forward as you describe. However, that is not the Gaskin Manuever. The Gaskin Manuever involves the rolling (which you ended up doing), and some folks think it is that rolling which helps to dislodge the stuck shoulder along with the hands & knees position opening up the pelvis front to back (when standing, place one hand on your pubic bone and the other on you tail bone--then lean forward. You will feel your hands move away from each other.). If all of the cords & IV lines are coming from the same side of the bed, it really isn't terribly difficult to coordinate the rolling.

There is no way you can win on that other blog. I've read several other postings ... they are anti medical ..anti anyone who doesn't do things the way they do things. They are there with the purpose of seeking out what they see as 'medical mistakes' and blasting the medical profession.

Ignore them, they may not go away ... but you're still ok.

I'm moved by your attention to this client, to the birth, and how receptive you were (despite, apparently, the unfriendly tone) to the suggestions or criticism of other people. Seems to me that that openness is one of the key signs of a good doctor.

Wonderful that the Gaskin maneuver worked for this mother and her baby was born healthy with your skillful help.

Great job. After doing a few thousand births it is my observation that the more opinionated are the less experienced. Keep the mom healthy, get the baby out in good shape--that's really our goal. I'm hoping you keep doing ob and continue to write about your experiences. Thanks for this nice and educational birth story.

Happy new year, and what an amazing story! I went back and read your first post on Nola, too - it was absolutely gripping.

I'm a new reader, and just wanted to say that I love the beautiful way you write about medicine.


I love your birth stories. I also love how reflective and thoughtful you are about birth.

I started a reply, and it got really, really long. I decided it was more appropriate to post it on my blog.

Check it out if you'd like:

http://momstinfoilhat.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/long-dystocia-reply-turned-post/

Funnily enough, my daughter was born on New Year's Eve (day) 2008 and is actually named Victoria.

Although I am not at all a medical or birthing professional, I love your birth stories. Keep 'em coming! Your piece on fetal HR deceleration patterns was really useful to me in understanding the fetal heart monitor. I also understood quite a few technical details of Vicky's birth thanks to your blog. For example, the nurses placed a scalp monitor, and I understood that quite well thanks to you.

Our attending OB was a bit more interventionist (suction, episiotomy) than you usually are, but I suspect he had concerns about my wife getting pretty tired during the pushing stage. The baby scored 8, 9, and 9 in Apgars, so I suspect he was right about that.

After reading Nola's original story some time back, it was a pleasure to watch the OB's giant meathooks deftly winkle out Vicky's shoulders in about three seconds flat, or that is what my memory tells me. Good hands for such a large man.

Anyway -- keep up the good work.

While I'm not glad that the discussion about Nola's first birth was so hurtful on that other board, I AM glad that I found your blog through reading it. I've been an avid reader ever since discovering your blog, and I have to say, if you were in the area and I were pregnant, I'd be looking you up! Keep up the good work - the women you care for are lucky people!

Thank you for this and for the first Nola story. I'm a newcomer to your blog, so I hadn't seen it the first time around, but I was very moved to hear your recount of a very dramatic stressful event. As a medical student, it's nice to hear what it's like being a "real" doctor.

The comments to this entry are closed.